Curse

wilebill · Oct 22, 2008, 01:31 PM // 13:31

I thought I would share my cheap and easy but highly effective Frenzied Save Yourselves build (which seems to be working well on both normal and hard mode) as a viable alternative for those who, like me, find keeping Aggressive Refrain up to be entirely too much like work.

P/W

Runes: Get something like an Elonian Crest of Leadership, put a rune of Superior Leadership on it. Rest minors, rune of Major Vigor will be fine. Armor insignias to taste.

Leadership: 16
Spear Mastery: 12
Command: 7

Spear: A spear with double adrenaline gain is nice, but actually any spear with +30 health works just fine.

Shield: With only 7 command, the shield is a bit of a problem, but a problem quickly solved without a huge and tiresome amount of Raptor farming.

Go to Blacktide Den on Istan and talk to Farzi [Weapons]. For 6 iron ingots and 150g you get a Heraldic Shield with Command requirement of 7, Armor of 13, and it is inscribable. Health boost on this shield is +20 which is good enough considering that you can have multiple shields, each with an inscription suitable for the area where you are fighting.

For example, in a heavy fire area Sleep Now in the Fire, Armor +7 against fire damage more than compensates for the loss of 10 hit points. The loss of 3 shield armor ... I do not notice any difference in the damage I take in real fights. Maybe someone with the numbers could tell us how much difference it really makes, or doesn't make as the case may be.

Skills:

Technobabble (or whatever)
Frenzy
Spear of Fury
Save Yourselves
Vicious Attack or Spear of Lightning
Go For the Eyes (at 7 Command it is still +51%)
Focused Anger
For Great Justice

Chain Focused Anger and For Great Justice, use Frenzy when appropriate, you will be awash in adrenaline. And energy is no problem!

AR gives you cracked armor. Frenzy gives you double damage. Thing is, with Frenzy you can choose when to risk the double damage and so far I have not had a bit of trouble with it.

If you have Eye of the North, there is a better shield for physical damage reduction, but it requires a lot of Raptor farming; then too, the cheap shield from Blacktide allows you freedom of inscriptions.

zelgadissan · Oct 22, 2008, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Keeping Aggressive Refrain up isn't hard work, it's being a useful paragon. You have shouts and chants, you gain energy from almost all your shouts and chants, your party benefits from your shouts and chants, use your shouts and chants.

Anyway, I'm guessing you're really not worried about doing damage yourself since your spear is only at 11+1, so why not just take Flurry and then you don't have to worry about taking double damage? It doesn't reduce the +damage from skills like Spear of Fury, and it's the lazy way around Aggressive Refrain. Plus with the -75 with the superior rune, double damage sounds questionable.

I'd also ditch Technobabble for TNTF (especially if you're running 16 Leadership) and just bring a BHA ranger hero or something, but maybe that's just me.

wind fire and ice · Oct 22, 2008, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Use Aggressive Refrain.

isamu kurosawa · Oct 22, 2008, 03:53 PM // 15:53

If you are going to make the mistake of opting for 16 in leadership al the time i cannot possibly see how you have trouble keeping up AR. a 26 sec duration is more tha enough.

Running a lower leadership and carrying a sup leadership headpiece just for the casting of AR will allow you to still have a high spear mastery with an easier to maintain AR.

Richardt · Oct 22, 2008, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Couple of things:

1) 16 Leadership isn't needed. If you're not running AR then you could drop down to 10, allowing you up Spear or command/motivation.

2) GFtE is best carried off the Imbagon. I don't know where this fad of having GFtE on the Imbagon is a good thing, but it needs to die.

Technobabble isn't bad, but it's only really good in certain areas. I'd leave that as a blank spot and move in what you need for the area. And Spear of Fury...I'd rather take a non-PvE attack skill and bring TNtF. If you ditch GFtE you'll have plenty of room for it.

DarkNecrid · Oct 22, 2008, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Monsters aren't players, and the reason Frenzy is used is because players dont attack the frontline/midline often, but monsters will attack people in Frenzy.

wilebill · Oct 22, 2008, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Spear of Fury will give 4 strikes of Adrenaline if the target has a condition, which it usually does around my h&h. I like Spear of Fury.

TNtF I carry in position 1 for hard mode player parties. With heroes and hench including a MM and a melee hero or hench, GFtE pays off noticeably, and I don't need TNtF with the h&h who tend to take care of themselves better than players do.

Yes, Technobabble or whatever, and how you really set up the build depends on the area you are heading into, particularly hard mode dungeons.

Racthoh · Oct 22, 2008, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Technobabble is only going to be useful in situations with two or more healers. Otherwise your group should be more than capable of dealing enough damage to drop a lone monk. With "Save Yourselves!" offering the +100 AL it's not like you need to daze offensive casters since their spells will tickle.

Frenzy and a superior rune, with no cancel stance, is asking for trouble. I can get my paragon to 15 Leadership with a cap swap, giving me 25 seconds on Aggressive Refrain. A 5 second period to use "There's Nothing To Fear!" when I swap back to 12 Leadership. That's more than enough time to swap to a high set in case I don't have the 15 energy for whatever reason. Aggressive Refrain also means I get to attack faster all the time, and not worry about an enemy bumping into me for too long and grabbing its attention.

Richardt · Oct 22, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56

With GFtE you'd want to spam it as much as possible-which is why it's bad for an Imbagon bar. For Imba you'll need all your adrenaline for SY so you can spam that, not spamming another adrenaline skill. Use others in your party for GFtE if you want to have it.

Rhamia Darigaz · Oct 22, 2008, 08:34 PM // 20:34

using TNtF every 20 seconds is so hard you'd use an inferior build?

MercenaryKnight · Oct 22, 2008, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Frenzy, on the one person who's vulnerable with no +100al is madness. Especially if you intend to take it anywhere on hardmode.

As everyone else suggests, either you can bring a sup leader rune helm and use that for your initial cast, or use another form of ias. You can turn to the dwarven stance pve skill for a slight ias that lasts pretty long but it's still inferior to ar.

MisterB · Oct 22, 2008, 09:58 PM // 21:58

The build doesn't have TNtF. Why?

edit: Read your explanation, but I still don't get it. I never run an Imbagon or SY in NM, however, I just chuck spears. I still bring TNtF and AR, though; those skills are stapled to my bar in PvE.

I'm not sure how TNtF every 20-24 seconds at a cost of 9 energy/20(@12 Leadership) seconds is more like work than Frenzy every 8 seconds.

Luminarus · Oct 22, 2008, 10:29 PM // 22:29

If you are too lasy to use tntf on every 20 seconds, why are u using SY every 4 seconds? Ur suggesting an inferior version of a great build, one that takes more effort to run, and has no additional advantage (apart from an extra essentially -20 armor, and -75hp). This is a nice lol.

I Jonas I · Oct 23, 2008, 12:52 AM // 00:52

If you are too lazy to maintain aggressive refrain, you shouldn't be playing a Paragon. End of Story.

Silversword22 · Oct 23, 2008, 01:01 AM // 01:01

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10327347

*sigh*

illidan009 · Oct 23, 2008, 01:30 AM // 01:30

build looks good imo. I don't get the hype about aggressive refrain honestly...

Richardt · Oct 23, 2008, 02:16 AM // 02:16

The fact that it's unstripable constant 25% IAS?

Lyynyyrd · Oct 23, 2008, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Sup Rune.... +100 AL Boost on everybody except for you.... Frenzy.... so basically, you're going to get attacked for sure, and you're reducing your health by 75 and your armor by 40.

BAD BAD BAD idea.

-Lotus- · Oct 23, 2008, 03:43 AM // 03:43

using frenzy with no cancel stance on the only party member that can take damage dosnt seem like such a great idea for some reason...

Silversword22 · Oct 23, 2008, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Well...it looks like we've beaten the Aggressive Refrain issue to death. I myself (along with many others) believe it's the best choice but it looks like people are still going to pass it up, regardless of what's said. SO, in an attempt to be original, and with respect to the OP I think flurry is maybe a better choice than frenzy (prepares to get blasted). With EBSoH or Asura Scan (instead of Technobabble) and an Orders hero, you should be able to still deal decent damage without the risk of dying fast and hard, and spamming the shouts should maintain the energy costs.

It's still a heck of a lot more work trying to maintain flurry.....but whatever.